In a two-part conversation on the HigherEdJobs podcast, co-hosts Andy Hibel and Kelly Cherwin talked with Warren Zanes, music adjunct faculty at Steinhardt School of Culture, Education, and Human Development at New York University.
Zanes is also the author of “Deliver Me from Nowhere: The Making of Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska,” which is now being made into a biographical film about the singer, songwriter, and guitarist.
In the podcast, he talked about Springsteen taking the road less traveled, as well as the left turns in his own career — particularly the one that led him to academia.
At this point, you might be wondering what exactly higher ed faculty and staff can learn from Springsteen’s left turn.
Zanes said, “First, we need to look at where [he] was relative to the institutions he was working with when he made that left turn.”
In terms of an academic parallel, Bruce Springsteen was not comparable to an adjunct professor, he noted. He was not on the level of a clinical professor or a department chair. Instead, he more similar to a dean with quite a bit of power.
For people who don’t know “Nebraska,” the album was an unfinished set of home recordings. Springsteen made the tapes in his bedroom, not intending to put them out as an album. But he felt a power in them, and he brought these recordings to Columbia Records to put out as his sixth official release. At the time, there was nothing like that happening with people at the top of the charts.
“In an academic setting, what can someone learn?” he asked. “It’s to take the risk. And you know, what it might involve is going into a vulnerable part of yourself and understanding that the consequences might not put you in a better place.”
“There were lots of consequences,” Zanes said. “And it just happened to work out.”
You’re Not Alone in Your Journey
After the book was released, Zanes said that most of the notes he received were about people’s personal mental health crises.
“This is a story of a recording made by one of our greatest popular musicians, and 75% of the emails I’m getting are talking about how this book” helped them understand what they went through or were going through, he said.
This helped him reflect on his own life.
“As an academic, we don’t talk a lot about self-help,” he said. “We’re not supposed to bring that on the college campus. But I’ve had points in my life, divorce, and the death of a parent, where I stopped reading fiction, and I stopped reading critical theory. And I’m reading self-help. And, so, to me, it’s an earmark of success that this book elicited that response because I think we should keep exploring hybrid forms. This is not a self-help book, but it had some function that related to that and that’s a win for me.”
Hibel said that shows the intangible benefits of authoring a book like this.
“What a wonderful gift to receive in return,” he said.
If there’s something the HigherEdJobs staff and leaders have learned over the years, Hibel said it’s that if you’re feeling something about your career right now, somebody else is feeling it.
“Many other people are feeling it,” he emphasized. “Knowing where you are in your career, being worried about your career, and making sure it’s going the way you want to and going through the bumps and dips of the road on a day-to-day basis, everybody goes through that. Talk to us. That’s what we’re here for.”
Being Vulnerable in the Classroom
In the second part of the interview, Zanes discussed his left turn in life that led him to a career in academia, following his time in Warner Bros. Recording act The Del Fuegos. He also talks about the importance of vulnerability in the classroom and letting things break down before rebuilding.
Zanes said he saw the need for vulnerability in the college classroom after the COVID-19 pandemic.
“I saw student accommodations rise like 75%,” he said. “On the side of the classroom teacher, it was the time to get a little bit more vulnerable… be a little less perfect to wear the professorial authority a little lighter, get a little more human.”
Zanes said that instructors can show their humanity so that students can unveil their own humanity.
“It’s not easy to do,” he admitted. There’s been such an emphasis on “publish or perish” for so long that it leaves less room for the kind of vulnerability students seek.
“But I think there’s a way to navigate this that is sane, appropriate, and responsive to the moment,” Zanes said.
Cherwin asked Zanes to describe his career arc.
“How did you go from being a guitar player in The Del Fuegos to Professor Warren Zanes, and what kind of left turn did you take to get there?” she asked.
The Del Fuegos released three records on Slash / Warner Brothers, toured with Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, and INXS. But he quit the band after feuding with his older brother, Dan.
“It came down to two brothers fighting, and I’m the little brother,” he said.
After he left, Zanes said his next job was what he now describes as “too much of a left turn.”
Taking Too Much of a Left Turn Led to Academia
He became a bicycle mechanic in New Orleans. Reflecting, Zanes said it was a tough time in his life. While at work, he heard Tom Petty’s “Full Moon Fever” album and the first single, “I Won’t Back Down,” on the radio.
“I got my hands all covered in grease, and I’m working on a Schwinn,” he said. “And the guy that we’d just been on tour with, I’m listening to his new record, and I’m like, ‘What happened?'”
The woman he was dating at the time was in graduate school. She suggested that he take some college classes. He looked at a map and found the closest college, Loyola University New Orleans. Zanes had never applied to college.
“I walked into the admissions office, and I said, ‘I went to Phillips Academy – Andover,” he said. “I just want to take a couple of classes because I’m trying to stay in a relationship. And they looked at me like I was crazy.”
He enrolled in two classes, the History of Philosophy and Women’s Literature, and fell in love with higher education. Zanes didn’t stop studying until he had a doctoral degree.
While interviewing for a faculty role at the University of Georgia, he was contacted by a recruiter working for the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. They’d read a recent article about the Zanes brothers in The New York Times.
He ended up in a leadership role, overseeing educational programs and collaborating with musicians and other artists. Part of his job was serving as a visiting professor at Case Western Reserve University.
Zanes subsequently landed a small book deal.
“A thing that looked like a mismanaged career started to look like a carefully curated job experience, and the gods were at work,” he said.
Zanes has a doctoral degree in visual and cultural studies from The University of Rochester. He is a New York Timesbest-selling author, Grammy-nominated documentary producer, and a former member of The Del Fuegos.
Hibel is a co-founder of HigherEdJobs and serves as its chief operating officer. Cherwin is the director of editorial strategy at HigherEdJobs.
Listen to Part 2, episode 68.
